Posts by John Davis

103

Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

by John Davis in

i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

John Davis

Listener:

I had said that we all break laws from time to time such as speeding and other issues but I wouldn't willfully break a felony at least in my country of the US.

For your first point about the seatbelt. I would buckle them up if I could, if it was too dangerous for me or caused them more injury I wouldn't even drive them in my car because if I buckled them up or not it would still be too dangerous and put them in more harm's way. I am not sure what you mean by parking illegally, I guess by leaving my car in an illegal zone for a few moments till I get some help from the staff and get back into the car, then I guess you are correct I would be willing to break that law.

Your question on military service, I have never thought about that but I guess because it would be a major violation of the law then I would comply with the requirement to serve.

I never stated that Watchtower has never or never will break the law. I think they have broken the law both in the USA and around the world. And it is up to the governments of those countries to decide how they want to prosecute them. And whether the people who had actually committed those crimes were willing to go to prison for their crimes or not was their own decision.

I think it is a fallacy to correlate committing a felony or a federal crime with that of not putting someone seat belt on or parking illegally. It is not like there is a state law that says well you're not allowed to record a person without their permission only if you are recording a JW Elder, no the law is that you're not allowed to record someone without their permission under any circumstances. It is are you willing to obey the law no matter what your motive may be either good or bad.

Even on this site a few years ago there are about 30 plus pages of people encouraging the group Anonymous to try and hack and retrieve the paedophile database of Watchtower. In fact, some were even trying to give them suggestions or beg them to commit a very serious crime. Annonymous may be considered in that instance as a hero organization but by the US Government and most Western Nations they are considered a Terrorist organization that has the capabilities of killing more people than has ever been killed by any other terrorist act in the history. Was that the way that the information was actually put into someone else's hands by the use of a criminal organization or by legal means by going through the courts or by the use of Legislation that put into effect the ARC.

If a family member is killed by someone, you may feel like going and hunting that person down and killing themselves in vengeance but is that right, is that the moral thing to do? No. The right thing the moral thing and the legal thing is to let the law take care of it. Even if the person gets off, you will be justifiably angry and hurt but does that give you the license to seek vengeance on your own? No. In fact, if you do seek vengeance guess who will be spending the rest of their life in a 5X10? That will be you.

20

Is There Anywhere To Go for an Outed JW elder/pedophile enabler?

by mrmagic in

since the australian royal commission, a lot of jw elders have been outed for either being pedophiles/molesters or for enabling it.

the jw elders who enabled it, are publicly outed to their community online and offline.

it's become a congregational matter with the entire kingdom hall and someone said that this elder would lose his eldership possibly, due to it "being known in the congregation and community" that he enabled child sexual abuse.

John Davis

You may want to be careful of what you accuse people publically like on reviews and posting things on social media. Recently a court awarded a photographer over 1 million dollars because the person who hired him denigrated them on social media sites because they weren't happy with the service provided.

Taking retribution out on someone even if they are in the wrong and your in the right may come back and bite you in the butt if they want to make a big deal that you had destroyed their reputation without proof or without them being convicted of doing anything.

103

Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

by John Davis in

i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

John Davis

Wait JP are you saying that viewing the law as black and white is a sign of not being mentally healthy. I will have to disagree with you on that one. Not trying to justify breaking the law is not a mental health issue it is being a law abiding citizen.

103

Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

by John Davis in

i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

John Davis

JP but the problem is what is the unjust law. Is it an unjust law not to hack into someone else's computer system. Is it an unjust law to not record someone if it is illegal where you live. I don't think that those are unjust laws, those are laws.

It is not the same by saying that African American's can only sit in the back of a bus. That is an unjust law because you have narrowed it to affect only a limited class of people. But what I am talking about is breaking neutral laws that affect everyone no matter who you are.

I don't think that the ends justify the means. You may think so but I don't.

103

Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

by John Davis in

i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

John Davis

orphan crow. Just to have people's opinions on this. I guess I started to think about it when I was listening to a youtube video and the person recorded a conversation with the US Legal department and they were in California where I know it is illegal to record without the second person's consent and well over the phone to it would be a federal crime as well. Some of the comments made it sound like there was nothing wrong with what they did, I am sure they meant by talking to the Legal Department but I thought how can someone be proud of another person who broke the law. So I wanted to get people's opinion on this.

103

Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

by John Davis in

i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

John Davis

And I was not planning on giving my opinion till you asked for it. Like I said I wasn't trying to say that anyone was right or wrong, you specifically asked me for my opinion. I knew I wasn't going to change anyone's mind nor was that my goal. I wanted to just get opinions.

49

Rookie exJW Question

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

John Davis

Dubstepped:

I was responding to this portion of the original post:

Can anyone tell me if the Watchtower really did support this person in their court case and was it because they were worried they'd lose their charity status?

And I responded to the issue on the statement that the child custody packet is secret. I stated that it may not be distributed to everyone, but that it isn't secret that it is announced that there is this packet every year.

So instead of just thinking that I am the one that pushed it off the subject I was responding to the actual post. So why don't you just leave me alone.

103

Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

by John Davis in

i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

John Davis

I think that breaking the law for any reason is not right. I know that we all break laws from time to time, we all speed or park where we aren't supposed to, but willfully breaking of a felony is wrong no matter what the reason behind it is.

I think in most modern countries the governments have set up laws that allow you to demand change in legal ways. They will allow you to file petitions, speak to legislatures or go to court. Those are all legal and valid ways to get changes to occur, and that people don't need to resort to illegal means if it is truly a violation of basic human rights.

103

Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

by John Davis in

i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

John Davis

I will answer your question. I don't know why they would Delay, Appeal or obfuscate. I am not them. I have no idea why they would do those things. You may feel that it is not right, I may feel that it is not right. everyone on here may feel that it is not right. But it is legal.

So my question goes to you. Do you feel the same way about the Lewis in the Lewis case that she and her counsel was delaying or obfuscating the administration of justice by not complying with the judges order?

49

Rookie exJW Question

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

John Davis

I am not sure if they had it back then. I just know that now there is always a letter stating that. It doesn't really even give legal advice since, at least in the US, family law is so complicated and every case is extremely unique. It just gave a list of cases that courts had ruled that were favorable in the respected country. It is meant so that the publisher can give it to their lawyer so that it will be easier for the lawyer to find the relevant cases. Actually thinking about it, I don't even know that it would be available in every country because obviously, every country is unique with regards to their laws.